91福利社

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18th February 2025

bbc.co.uk/accessall

Access All 鈥� episode 147

Presented by Emma Tracey

EMMA- So, let me get this straight: superstar actress, Marissa Bode, was in your home just hours after she was on the red carpet in London with all the stars from Wicked?

CHANTAL- That鈥檚 correct, yes. She came over and we just chilled on the sofa. And she had a lot of interviews and she was heading back to LA, so that was the last chance we鈥檇 get to hang out so.听

EMMA- I鈥檓 Emma Tracey, this is Access All, and Chantal Nasseri, you need to explain to us what your link is with Wicked, the movie?

CHANTAL- I am the access coordinator.听

EMMA- That sounds very fancy. What does it involve?

CHANTAL- Initially organising the flights, the transport, the accommodation. I know as a wheelchair user that travelling it can take a lot of energy and it鈥檚 stressful, all the assistance that they promised you is it actually going to happen. So, I wanted to make sure they didn鈥檛 have any of that in their head at all. Then it was a matter of ensuring that every set was accessible, the costume department, the props, we designed a trailer, to ensure that all of those details are taken of.听

EMMA- The Wicked movie has made 拢520 million so far worldwide. That鈥檚 a quite a responsibility.

CHANTAL- You know, when I went for the job I had no concept of the enormity of what I had just signed up for. They hadn鈥檛 even finished casting, so watching it evolve I was like, oh wait, hang on, Cynthia Erivo, there鈥檚 Jonathan Bailey. Michelle Yeoh spoke to me on set one day and she was like, 鈥楬i!鈥� and I was like, 鈥楿h, uh鈥� and I was, like, proper geeked out. I just didn鈥檛 know how to cope. I still remained uncool all the way through [laughter].听

EMMA- How did you get the job in the first place?听

CHANTAL- They were interviewing for an access coordinator and so I went along for the job. And during the interview I spoke with one of the producers; his concept and his ethos really won me over, it was beautiful. I liked that he was talking about plausibility for a disabled viewer. That kind of made a lot of sense to me because watching TV or a movie if you have a wheelchair user and they get in a car and then they arrive at the next destination and their wheelchair is just there waiting for them, you know, I would question that and be like that鈥檚 not real. And for him to have acknowledged that I just thought wow, they get it actually, they鈥檙e invested in making this not just physically accessible but accessible on all levels, and that mattered.听

There鈥檚 a really big movement of access coordinators in the UK at the moment. Wicked has been such a public massive display, and following it I think this will be quite an incredible shift. It鈥檚 not just about members of the cast but the crew, you know, you can pull upon an entire demographic of people that can bring a lot to the table.听

EMMA- Chantal Nasseri, thank you so much. On with the show!

MUSIC- Theme music.听

EMMA- This is Access All, the weekly disability and mental health podcast from 91福利社 News. And if you were watching the BAFTAs at the weekend you鈥檒l have heard some fabulous disability representation from Warwick Davis, congratulations on your lifetime achievement BAFTA Warwick, and also Adam Pearson who was presenting a BAFTA. But I was sad to note that the nominations were not read out loud, so as a blind person when I was listening to the clips after someone says, 鈥楾he nominees are鈥� I didn鈥檛 know who was being nominated; all I could hear was maybe a bit of Spanish, someone being upset, various little clips of films, but no idea who was being nominated or what film was being nominated.听

Ireland also had the IFTAs at the weekend. See what they did there with the name, yeah? And they did have a very seriously serious sounding fella reading out the nominations at their awards. Maith th煤, sir! That鈥檚 Irish for well done. You can tell we鈥檙e heading slowly towards St Patrick鈥檚 Day. But I am glad that it鈥檚 still winter because this week I get to speak to the winner of gold at the World Para-bobsleigh Championships in Switzerland, Corie Mapp. What a guy.听

But first, we are about to chat to a suicide prevention charity for young people and to a young person who has used the service. There is no detail about suicide in this, but if this chat is not for you today skip forward about 12 minutes to hear from Corie and his bobsleigh team.听

MUSIC-

EMMA- A national suicide prevention charity for young people which runs a specialised 24-hour helpline says it鈥檚 running desperately short of money. It鈥檚 the only helpline of its kind in the UK with trained paid suicide prevention advisors available 24 hours a day. The charity, PAPYRUS, says that since it launched its night service in 2023 it鈥檚 seen an 86% increase in young people reaching out to it via its text and email service. It鈥檚 launching an emergency appeal to raise 拢440,000, without which it says it will have to reduce its services. Now, we鈥檝e got Ged Flynn here who is the CEO of PAPYRUS. Hi, Ged.

GED- Hello.听

EMMA- Hiya. And we will come back to you for a chat in just a few minutes. But first I want to talk to Francesca Murphy who鈥檚 used the helpline, which is called HOPELINE, for many years. Francesca鈥檚 28, she鈥檚 from South Wales and she works in a whiskey distillery. Hi, Francesca, how are you doing today?听

FRANCESCA- Hello, I鈥檓 very well thank you. Thank you for having me.听

EMMA- oh, thank you for being here. Listen, you鈥檝e spoken to PAPYRUS HOPELINE, you spoke to them for seven years. When did you start?

FRANCESCA- So, I first began speaking to them back in 2014 when I was 19, 20. And it was actually predominantly the text service I was using at that time. And honestly when they were there in literally the darkest times of my life, and I can most definitely say if it wasn鈥檛 for that charity I wouldn鈥檛 be here today being able to advocate for them.听

EMMA- And what was going on for you at that time, Francesca, and how did they help?听

FRANCESCA- I鈥檝e always been very mature, but emotionally I鈥檝e always been very young. And I had a few personal things happen in my life and, looking back now, I didn鈥檛 understand how to process everything. And I just wanted to run away and disappear off the face of the Earth, and I think it鈥檚 because I didn鈥檛 know how to process everything. So, with that my brain would just go essentially, okay, well the only thing you鈥檝e got to do is sort of end your life. And it wasn鈥檛 a one-off thought, it was a constant oh no, you鈥檝e got to do this because there鈥檚 no hope because nothing鈥檚 ever going to change. And I think subconsciously I knew that wasn鈥檛 what I really wanted, but I didn鈥檛 understand what I was going through.听

I can speak to people forever and ever face to face, but all the support charities and everything I always found were always phone calls, and I can鈥檛 really speak over the phone like that without seeing facial expressions. And I saw that HOPELINE had a text service, and it was the text service that really changed it. And the advisors went in my opinion above and beyond because there were times where I鈥檇 text them and the line at the time was nearly closing but they put an action plan for me to do. And they actually said, well I remember one person said, 鈥榃e will contact you in the morning鈥�. And it was these little things that it was actually okay, someone 鈥� I鈥檓 not saying people didn鈥檛 care, my families, my friends they were incredible, but I would never speak to them. I wouldn鈥檛 say what was going on in my brain, whereas I was able to say that to the HOPELINE.听

EMMA- Yeah. So, when you talk about an action plan was that texts back and forward, would they text an agreed plan? And what kinds of things would be on it?听

FRANCESCA- It was just little things because you ended up speaking to that same advisor the whole entire text. They kind of get to know you, so they only know what you tell them. I鈥檓 quite easy to talk to about what I enjoy doing, and they reminded me that actually there are things in life that I enjoy doing, so it was worth putting things that I enjoy into place and saying, 鈥榃ell what if we do this or if you do this tonight, and then we鈥檒l contact you in the morning鈥�.听

EMMA- And what kinds of things did you love doing that they would put on your plan for you?听

FRANCESCA- I have a massive connection with the beach and the sea and just walking and walking, and it鈥檚 just been refreshing, and not being told by a crisis team to have a cup of tea and a bath, because that鈥檚 what they tell everyone, not on PAPYRUS now, but other people and other charities. It was music playing on my saxophone, which I at times forgot I even played. And it鈥檚 the little things because they鈥檙e taking an interest in your as a person and not generalising you as everyone else.听

EMMA- And the night service launched in 2023, which is after you were using it. But if the night service had been around when you were using it how much would you have used that in the middle of the night or late at night? And what difference would that have made?听

FRANCESCA- I genuinely think if the night service was there before it would have probably saved a lot of other issues, as in hospital admissions and things like that. Because the daytime service did prevent that from happening because they prevented me making actions that I was intending on doing because they put plans in place and they helped me through my thoughts and my feelings, whereas in the nighttime I didn鈥檛 have that. But there must be people out there who are listening to this who have used or are using the nighttime service, because the nighttime that鈥檚 when you鈥檙e left alone with your thoughts more than any other time.听

EMMA- Did you end up having to go to hospital at nighttime?听

FRANCESCA- Yeah.听

EMMA- And you鈥檙e in a better place now, Francesca, thank goodness.听

FRANCESCA- Yeah.听

EMMA- Francesca, thank you for telling me your story, I really appreciate it. Will you stay with me for a few minutes?听

FRANCESCA- Of course I will.听

EMMA- And Ged, you鈥檙e the CEO of PAPYRUS. How do you feel listening to Francesca鈥檚 story there?听

GED- Well, firstly I鈥檝e got to say that I鈥檓 very jealous that you work in a whiskey distillery. That sounds really exciting [laughter]. It鈥檚 very humbling actually. I can speak on behalf of all our staff, I say every day this work is a privilege. It鈥檚 very painful to stand alongside somebody proverbially at the wall of death. It鈥檚 not easy, and we want to move away as a society from death and mental illness. And when those two come together as suicide it鈥檚 something that very few of us choose to stay alongside. And I always say to people who fundraise for us or support us in any way, that鈥檚 the bravest thing people ever do really, just to say, I鈥檓 standing up to suicide and I know it鈥檚 a preventable death. So, Francesca, huge thanks for sharing your heart with us. We don鈥檛 save lives; your testimony will have saved a life today.听

EMMA- You鈥檙e clearly very, very passionate about what you do, Ged. How popular, Ged, has the nighttime service been since it started?听

GED- Incredibly really. I had always longed for us to go to 24/7 but we have to use our pennies wisely, so it took us quite a while. I鈥檝e been with the charity since 2010 and it was always my aspiration to go 24/7. And we managed that in 鈥�23 or thereabouts. But I suspected that it would be people themselves who were in crisis who would ring us in the night, and that has been the case. But I鈥檝e been 鈥� I was going to say pleasantly surprised, nothing pleasant about this 鈥� but I鈥檝e been surprised at the number of people who have rung about somebody else in the middle of the night, especially if you鈥檝e got long-term care for somebody, a son, a daughter, a partner and it鈥檚 the first time you鈥檝e got a bit of peace in the middle of the night to ring us and say, 鈥業鈥檓 at the end of my tether and I don鈥檛 know how to help this person鈥�. Some people with an acute mental illness, some people with a crisis that may come and go but for them it鈥檚 the end of the world, if you鈥檙e the care giver for that person sometimes you鈥檙e holding that pain alone, literally in the middle of the night.听

EMMA- And it鈥檚 literally keeping them up at night?听

GED- Absolutely, yeah. And so you can imagine a mum or a dad, for whom mental illness was something you鈥檇 see on a film, and when it visits your home, whether that鈥檚 a short-term pain or a long-term illness, when that visits you you don鈥檛 have a toolkit to deal with it.听

EMMA- Tell me about the increase in young people reaching out?听

GED- Youth services have been depleted significantly. Schools are absolutely stretched to deliver education and social care often in the daytime. And young people at home are under increasing pressure where parents, again financial problems exist, and therefore they鈥檙e left resourceless and having to rely on themselves to navigate new realities like relationship breakdowns, abuse, hurt, regret, guilt, all of those feelings that are normal parts of life, but we need to give them greater resource than we ever did.听

EMMA- Okay. You heard Francesca there talk about what she likes specifically about PAPYRUS in terms of the fact that she doesn鈥檛 have to do a phone call, she can text or do chat or email. Why do you think it鈥檚 so important for your specific service to keep going?听

GED- It鈥檚 difficult because I don鈥檛 really mind where people contact, as long as they stay safe from suicide. But I would love to say that what is special to us is the word you: you matter. So, I loved it when you say, Francesca, we didn鈥檛 say go home and have a bath. That might not work for you, but what works for you is crucial. Each one of us finds life in different ways. So, I鈥檇 love to think that that鈥檚 always a characteristic of PAPYRUS that you will come first, not our safety plan, what鈥檚 going to work for you.听

EMMA- Okay. And what happens, Ged, if you can鈥檛 raise this 拢440,000?听

GED- Sadly we鈥檙e going to have to cut our cloth, because we don鈥檛 just run the HOPELINE, we run services across the UK, we reach out going into schools and colleges, and we may need to cut our cloth accordingly. Because I think everybody agrees that whilst all of that helps to prevent young suicide, the critical thing is to give advice when it鈥檚 needed, right now, day and night, 24/7.听

EMMA- Francesca, you told me that you ran the Marathon for PAPYRUS, and while you were running you came upon someone else running for the charity, didn鈥檛 you?听

FRANCESCA- Yeah. So, when I crossed the finish line of the Edinburgh Marathon back in 2017 I ran across and then all of a sudden I saw a little group of people and it was a family, and I believe their friends and family, also they were running for PAPYRUS. And it was in some ways a bittersweet moment. They were running in memory of someone they鈥檇 unfortunately lost. But we were hearing their story and how PAPYRUS have actually helped them I think grieve. And then also how helpful it was for them to hear essentially what they were raising money for, a product of that. I think those were the actual words: it was so nice to see a product of where the money that they鈥檙e raising is going to go. And it鈥檚 not just me that PAPYRUS has helped or the HOPELINE has helped; I am one in, I don鈥檛 know the figures, but thousands.听

EMMA- Ged, how can people find out more about the campaign?听

GED- If you go on to any social media platform and type in the word PAPYRUS you鈥檒l find our emergency appeal there, papyrus-uk.org. And if you need us and you want to text us for help, not to give us money, if you鈥檙e listening to this and you need us right now do what Francesca bravely did and text us on 88247 and we鈥檒l give you some support to stay safe from suicide.听

EMMA- Ged Flynn, CEO of PAPYRUS, and Francesca Murphy, thank you so much for speaking to me on Access All.听

GED- Thank you so much. Superb, thank you.听

FRANCESCA- Thank you very much, thank you.听

EMMA- If you are suffering distress or despair details of help and support are available at bbc.co.uk/actionline.听

MUSIC-

EMMA- Here on Access All we love to hear from people whose disability related grit and determination have paid off and who are living the dream, who are doing what floats their boat or, in the case of our next guest, what shoots their bathtub-shaped sled down the ice. Recently after nine attempts my next guest, double amputee Corie Mapp, won gold at the World Para-bobsleigh Championships in Switzerland. Hi, Corie. How are you doing today?

CORIE- Hi, I鈥檓 great thank you. How are you?听

EMMA- I鈥檓 very well thank you, very well. So, first of all we need to say congratulations to you for retaining your world title last month. What other titles have you won? 听

CORIE- I鈥檝e been European champion a few times, world cup champion three times now. My aim is to be always in the top three in the world cup.听

EMMA- Corie I鈥檓 blind, so I need you to forgive me for asking you this, because I think everybody else will know this. But what exactly is bobsledding? What does it involve?听

CORIE- Ah, bobsleighing, it鈥檚 basically going down a nice chute in a bathtub.听

EMMA- [Laughs]

CORIE- Bobsleighing is done in a kind of aerodynamic vehicle on an ice chute basically. The aim is to get to the bottom in then fastest possible time.听

EMMA- Okay. And in Cool Runnings from the 鈥�80s it was a Jamaican bobsleigh team and sometimes their vehicle wasn鈥檛 particularly aerodynamic and they didn鈥檛 get much access to ice; that was really the story, wasn鈥檛 it. You sound like you鈥檙e from the Caribbean yourself.听

CORIE- I am. I鈥檓 from Barbados originally.听

EMMA- Lovely. And I bet your vehicle鈥檚 very aerodynamic?

CORIE- It鈥檚 good. Basically we get issued a sled by the IBSF, which is the International Bobsleighing & Skeleton Federation, so we all get the same equipment and we all get to race on an even playing field. It鈥檚 one of the only sports that men and women are allowed to race side by side in, so it鈥檚 pretty cool.听

EMMA- Okay. And what speeds are we talking here?听

CORIE- Well, this week鈥檚 been quite slow, so this week we鈥檝e been going like 128kms an hour. On average here we would probably go 132, 133ish.

EMMA- What does that feel like?听

CORIE- It鈥檚 a good adrenaline rush. It鈥檚 a time when you鈥檝e got to be extremely still in your sled. You can鈥檛 make any sudden movements or you鈥檙e going to be thrown off, so it鈥檚 very exciting, it鈥檚 very exhilarating.听

EMMA- Have you been thrown off?听

CORIE- I have crashed a few times, yeah.听

EMMA- And did that not scare you off?听

CORIE- Oh definitely not.听

EMMA- No, straight back on there?听

CORIE- Straight back on.听

EMMA- So, when and how did you try bobsledding? Because it doesn鈥檛 seem like the most obvious sport to me.听

CORIE- Basically my backstory is that I was injured in Afghanistan in 2010 while serving in the British Army. And as a result of that we were introduced to different types of sports as kind of a recovery tool. So, I learnt to play golf for my balance and proprioception; I started batting again cricket wise, and started playing cricket for Hampshire Disability; started playing volleyball again. There were just a number of things that we were able to learn. So, as part of this recovery programme with Help for Heroes they took me out to Canada and introduced myself and a couple of other people to bobsleighing in 2014. Yeah, it all started from there.听

EMMA- That鈥檚 cool. And was it love at first sight or did it fill you with terror first?听

CORIE- Well, the way I see it, coming from a background of armed conflict and so on, I thought well, nobody鈥檚 shooting at me so it can鈥檛 be that bad. I just said just be open-minded and give it a go.听

EMMA- How has bobsledding been adapted for you and other disabled people?听

CORIE- So, for the able-bodied guys they propel the sleds themselves. Obviously they鈥檙e not carrying any injuries. In para-bobsleigh we have to cater for people with different levels of paraplegia, we have to cater for people with single and double amputations. For instance you might have a person鈥檚 chair or a person鈥檚 seat at a different angle; you might have myself, I鈥檓 a bilateral below-knee amputee so I have to take my legs off so that I become destabilised to an extent like a person with paraplegia.听

EMMA- Okay, so you鈥檙e actually trying to equalise the advantage or the disadvantage of everybody on the sled?

CORIE- Yeah. They make it as fair as possible.听

EMMA- That鈥檚 interesting.听

CORIE- So, for me I can鈥檛 race with my legs on or any prosthetic limb, anything that will give me the stability that they don鈥檛 have.听

EMMA- Okay. How are your sleds propelled then?听

CORIE- Our sleds are propelled by a device, by a launcher, and it鈥檚 meant to mimic the start for a two-man team.听

EMMA- So, is it the thing that fires you off?听

CORIE- Pretty much, yeah.听

EMMA- Wow!

CORIE- It is pretty cool.听

EMMA- And is there like a beep to know when it鈥檚 going to do it?听

CORIE- No. Essentially they will give you a countdown or ask you if you鈥檙e ready, and then you just kind of prepare yourself and then they will flick the button and launch you.听

EMMA- Some bobsleighing events there鈥檚 running at the start. Does yours not have any of those? Is it always launched off like that?听

CORIE- Yeah, because as I mentioned before, you have people with paraplegia and so on so they obviously have no access to their legs. I can do that because I can wear running legs and jump in myself.听

EMMA- So, do you do non par- bobsledding just for fun then when you鈥檙e not doing these competitions?听

CORIE- Yes, I do.听

EMMA- Really? So, do you have a team that鈥檚 non-disabled people and you or amputees together, just for fun?听

CORIE- Just for fun, yeah. Like locally when I train I will push myself or someone else will push me.

EMMA- So, it gives you more training opportunities I guess?听

CORIE- Yeah.听

EMMA- Is there like a disability bobsledding community?听

CORIE- There鈥檚 16, 17 of us here this week from numerous different countries. We鈥檙e pretty much a small family because we travel together a lot, we go from country to country together during the season. So, it鈥檚 a tightknit community and we really, really do enjoy each other鈥檚 company.听

EMMA- That sounds really nice. Has being a bobsledder lowered your fear threshold, which I think was quite high anyway to be fair? Is there stuff now that鈥檚 just slow and boring for you now that you fly down this ice chute?

CORIE- Yes actually. I was telling someone yesterday that rollercoasters have become very boring.听

EMMA- Really? Even the ones where you hang upside down?

CORIE- Yeah, they鈥檙e all boring. Like, the G-forces and stuff are not the same.听

EMMA- I mean, what about when bobsledding becomes boring, what are you going to do then?

CORIE- It won鈥檛 become boring because there鈥檚 always the fear of crashing.听

EMMA- [Laughs]. What has been your hairiest moment on the ice do you think?听

CORIE- I had a really bad crash in Lake Placid in New York that dislocated my shoulder. I had a concussion as a result of another crash that I had. So, those are the two that I can think of.听

EMMA- Do you think that it鈥檚 assumed that disabled people can鈥檛 handle risk or shouldn鈥檛 do risky things?听

CORIE- I think so to some extent, yes. Like I remember some people going, 鈥極h well, why are you going to do this? You鈥檙e already injured enough鈥�. I thought that myself at first, but what being openminded to stuff like bobsleighing, skiing and different things will do it will just open your mind to a completely different way of living. And I believe in living and not existing, if that makes sense.听

EMMA- So, when you say it opens you up to another way of living do you mean like living on the edge?听

CORIE- Just going out there and experiencing new things. Not limiting yourself because people think oh well, you鈥檙e disabled so you should probably just go the safe route, or let me bubble wrap you or whatever the case might be. You meet a completely new type of person who will say, 鈥楥ome on, let鈥檚 try this鈥�. On average our families or friends or people who you meet day to day will go, 鈥極h well, you shouldn鈥檛 be doing that now, you should just focus on being safe鈥�. Whereas we meet people who have been doing this stuff for a while and they鈥檙e like, 鈥楧ude, you can do this. It鈥檚 fine, it鈥檚 okay. I鈥檝e crashed and I鈥檝e survived it鈥�.听

EMMA- Best of luck with your future bobsledding competitions, and thank you for speaking to me.听

CORIE- Thank you for having me on.听

MUSIC-

EMMA- Well, that鈥檚 almost it from this week鈥檚 Access All podcast. But there is still time to hear from you, the listener. Thank you so much for getting in touch, you make it all worthwhile. David, thank you for contacting us. David says, 鈥楾hanks to Access All for the story about Niamdh Braid, the 16 year-old who took her local authority to a tribunal to get the British sign language support she needed at school鈥�. David says, 鈥業 find it so upsetting that people have to fight so hard for what is an obvious right鈥�. Thanks David for your thoughts on that. Em sent us an email. Em says, 鈥業 know you are a British podcast but I am so grateful for your occasional coverage of the USA since we don鈥檛 have anything like Access All鈥�. We appreciate your feedback there, Em. And Em suggests that we talk about the USA and what鈥檚 happening just now around disability related laws. Em, we are keeping all our eyes across what鈥檚 happening with all the disability goings on across the pond.

If you want to suggest a story you can get in touch with us in all the usual ways. You can email accessall@bbc.co.uk. You can find us on social media @91福利社AccessAll. You can send us a WhatsApp voice message or a text message to 0330 123 9480. If you haven鈥檛 done already please subscribe to the podcast on 91福利社 Sounds. That鈥檚 it for now. Thanks for listening, and I will leave you with the words from 鈥�90s band NSYNC, b-b-b-bye bye. 听

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FEMALE- And I was like, go on Kate, put some more welly into it!

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CHRIS- I鈥檓 glad I asked that.听

FEMALE- I鈥檓 very glad that you asked that!